Mike, I have never really felt much toward my H's OW. I just didn't feel the hatred that so many experience. I was always way more angry with my H than her.

Now, more than two years since this started, I am beginning to hate her with a passion. We have lived just above the poverty line ever since we have been together. We have never had any material possessions worth much. She is married to a well-to-do dentist, lives in a beautiful home, takes trips to Europe regularly, etc. She came after the one thing I had of value--my marriage and my family. Even after promising me over and over that she was truly sorry and repentant, she kept coming after what was mine. For awhile I was doing much better. Now I am becoming angry again.

I'm confident that you can keep your emotions in check, even though at times it seems impossible. In fact, the way we react is the only thing we can control upon hearing something that disturbs us. I've been reading your story since this summer, and you are one impressive dude! Thanks for the inspiration!

Glad thigs are working out for you. Do you feel any sense of a return to normalcy? One of the books I read this summer was titled A New Normal. Maybe that's what you have now. Do you want to still have contact with your ex? If not, I'd ask that she not contact me again. It's hard enough without having her call you up every few days and reminding you.

What have the two of you each done to get past this? Have you started counseling, either individual or couples? Have you read any books? A great one for you would be NOT "Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. Another one that I highly recommend is Getting Past the Affair-Toegether or Apart. Can't remember the authors' names; there are at least three.That is the one my H and I are currently working through.....slowly. We're 5 months since our latest d-day. We can no longer afford to see a counselor, but I think this is helping. We're just getting started on the part of the book that deals with the "why" of the affair. The book warns that it will be difficult, but stresses that going through these questions is important for the injured partner's healing. All the other times I found out he was still in contact with this woman, I did little to nothing--except cry a lot and believe his lies. That didn't help things one little bit.


You say that you absolutely cannot make it financially on your own. Have you spoken to a lawyer to be sure? Do you know what your rights are? Do you have family who could help you temporarily? What about taking in another single mom as a roommate?

By the way, you won't be able to fake it for your kids' sakein the long term. They will know you are miserable, and that will be their example of what a mom is.

Man, I am sorry for you, and I am sorry for me. We can't go more than 3 or 4 days without hurt feelings. Will this EVER get better? Is it even worth it? We have three kids and 25 years together. Would being alone and permanently broke be better than this? Most of the time things are okay, but the times when things are not okay seem to weigh more somehow. Damn, I am tired of this.

Sorry, not much help, am I?

Apparently the men went to the same school! My H told me the exact same shit. One time I caught him in contact and he lied and told me that he had just ended it. That was back in my innocent/gulible days, and I actually believed him. One exception: he admits that he loved her--but he loved me too. He even says that he will always care for her. SHIT Now I'm pissed again. And at this point I am staying--things look good for us (this week lol--or at least before today). Everytime I realize something or get thrown back into those feelings I wonder how realistic staying together is. Yesterday I found a Sunday comic from a year ago that he had written on and given to me. One comic strip was circled with a heart. It was something about a husband who loved his wife more everyday. He had written something--can't remember what cause I got pissed when I looked at the date. That was durring the time he was begging her almost daily to come back to him--to leave her husband so they could be together.

He could tell I was upset, but then i got back on the 180. However, I had wadded up the paper and left it on the bed. I later asked if he had done that to keep me off the trail, or to try to convince me that it was really over between them (which I did believe). He says he did love me at that time. WTF? That's hard for me to wrap my head around.

It's NOT just the women.

He sounds incredibly immature. The concept of personal responsibilty is something that I struggle to teach my kids. The reason it is sometimes a struggle is because their father has an attitude that everything that goes wrong is someone else's fault. In the early stages of our latest recovery period, he would even blame me for the affair. Sometimes he would blame the OW.

How we react to a situation is the only thing we can control. We cannot control others. How they react is always their choice.

Your story sounds so much like my life for the last I don't know how many years. Holding it in was my method for dealing with his mood swings too. Don't let this go on for very long. It will eat away at your self-respect. No one deserves to be treated that way. Your kids are being affected by this as well. That was one thing that convinced my to make a change and stand up for myself. I didn't want them to see our relationship and think this is "normal."

Cali, you can do this. You know how strong you are! Keep your chin up.

Am I understanding you right? You are concerned that the woman you are cheating on your wife with might be cheating on you? Besides her husband?

She's using you for sex, for a high, for self-validation, for a thrill. Yes, I think she must have some feelings for you, but not enough to leave her husband. She loves him more--just not enough to be faithful to him.

Do you feel shitty about cheating on your wife, or just about your girlfriend possibly cheating on you? Of course she lies to you. She's had a lot of practice for the last year and a half. You lost yourself as a person when you started the affair. Is this really who you are? You're doing the same things to your wife. You are using the OW as a safety net. If you really wanted to be with someone else, why not leave your wife first? Because it might not work out with someone else--and then you'd have no one. Being alone can't be worse than this.

I don't think she is doing this to hurt you. She's broken, and finally realizing that she is the only one who can fix herself. What she wants from you is forgiveness. Remember, forgiveness is not saying that what someone did was okay, just that you are willing to let go of the pain. It just takes awhile to get to that point. I am still hanging on to mine. Not ready to let go completely, though I am releasing my strangle-hold a bit .

Maybe she wants you to beg her to come back to you. But as we all know...THAT AIN'T HAPPENING!

I think she is looking for some relief from her own guilt and pain at knowing she tore her family apart for nothing--over nothing. That's a heavy burden to carry, but she's the one who put the rocks in her pack!

Stay strong. Things will continue to get better.

If it says what you think it does, you could send backa short email saying "I got your email--Hope you can find some closure and move on like I have."

As your children's mother, for their sake, she should be treated with at least as much courtesy as you would give a co-worker. You don't need to say you are sorry for how things turned out. After all, that was her doing. But to ignore her entirely invites dischord into the children's lives. The two of you will be connected for the rest of your lives. It won't end when they graduate from high school....College, holidays, weddings, grandchildren, birthdays, etc.

You are incredibly strong now, but it's still not fun to continually have her intruding. Keep to the 180 and she'll get the hint without you ever having gotten ugly about it.

If you do read it, please post about it! I'm curious!

I broke 30-yr-old beer steins from Germany with a hammer, tore up old prom pictures from his HS days, threw something outside that broke one of my clay pots (didn't mean to do that), threw our wedding album at the window scattering the pictures on the floor--on our anniversary. I am a very calm, easy going person generally. It takes a lot to get me angry, and even then I always think first before acting. Sometimes I wish I wouldn't be so controlled. I just imagine myself throwing things across the room at him, though luckily not as much anymore!

One more thing: the 180. You have to be moving forward with your life. There is no going back, and there is no standing still. Bwhk had a great line in another post, but I can't seem to paraphrase it very well at the moment. Something about being the person you would be happy to be with. That's not it, I'll have to look it up! LOL Anyway, he was saying don't wait until your spouse comes around to be happy. As hard as that is, you've got to work on yourself! No one else can make you happy. It's up to you. I'd do well to remember that myself.

I really don't know how you feel. My H has been the one who seems to want to be closer to me than the other way around. However, as I sit here trying to imagine what it would be like if he showed no remorse and no affection toward me, I don't think I would be able to wait 8 months either. The 8 months (in my situation) is for me to decide if this is what I want. He'd better already want this marrige to work! And he'd better be doing everything in his power to make it work. You're right, SHE is the one who cheated! She is the one who should be begging you to stay with her.

For me it has been 5 months now, and just a couple of weeks ago--if that long--I got what felt like genuine remorse. In the first three months, he was still feeling sorry for himself. Although he was trying to say all the right things, it didn't always feel real. We go through periods where everything is great and it looks like we're going to make it. Then everything is horrible (last week) and I want a divorce! I can't imagine how it would feel if he didn't tell me all the time that he loves me and wants to be with me--even though my heart still doubts him at times. The eight months is so that I won't make a decision during a time when I litterally cannot make a sound decision about our marrige.

I think it may be time to ask her to move out for a trial separation. I don't remember if you have said whether you have kids or not, but being the father makes it trickier if she is a stay-at-home mom. It sounds like she has given up on the marrige, for whatever reason, and is staying because she feels too guilty to leave.

Someone here suggested a book that I'd like to read. Something like: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay. Maybe that would help. Good luck to you during this very trying time.

LOL I still have that same urge! Does that ever go away? When we are lying in bed, I want to lift my arm and bring my fist down on him. I know it wouldn't be a very effective punch, but I still get that urge!

I had a reply going this afternoon that accidently got cleared right before I had to log off. It said several of the same kinds of things that bwhk and you have said! Funny how we were thinking the same thing.

I had said that I was sorry this was happening now and that I've admired your resolve to stay and work through your marital problems. I've been waffling for months--even as recently as last week.

I also said your H is messed up and that he sounds like he is depressed and trying to push you away. Every now and then my H will say that he thinks I am waiting for him to mess up so I will have a reason to leave. I just laugh and tell him that I ALREADY have a damn good reason to leave! I don't need for him to mess up--he already did!

As usual, bwhk is right on target. The 180 will be your best friend right now so you will be able to be your own best friend. I love the advise about becoming a person you are happy with no matter who you are with. Excellent. Damned hard to concentrate on right now though. I'm glad you have the financial resources to continue with counseling. We stopped months ago.

Thanks for the update. We care about you.

Ha ha! Sometimes my H will say that he thinks I am just waiting for him to mess up so I will have an excuse to leave him. I always laugh and tell him I already have a damn good reason to leave! I don't need for him to mess up--he already did that! I understand that I am not capable of making a decision right now. My thinking is screwed up. I'm working on healing enough to see if we are still right for each other.

Hurtguy! So glad to hear you're doing well. You certainly moved quickly with the new gf! Hope you are happy!

I'll take anger over depression any day. I was depressed for MONTHS before I knew the truth. More than a year off and on. I could barely function. I was a pathetic mess--crying all the time. Thank goodness for this site! I am empowered now. I WILL be fine--no matter what. I think he is a bit perturbed by my new-found strength at times, but SO WHAT!

Today we are doing great. It's still a day-to-day situation. Last week was horrible. Almost called for a divorvorce on Friday! I am almost 5 months since last d-day. Just the other day he said some things that were very healing. He was saying that he never stopped loving me, and I said something about how that was a contradiction for me. He responded with, "Don't you think it is for me too? Don't you know that it eats me up inside every day that I could do this to you--the one I love more than anything?"

I truely beleive he is out of the fog and is remorseful. That goes a long way toward helping me heal. We still have relationship issuses to deal with, but I think we may be on the road to recovery....finally. HA! I've thought that before though. It's a LONG road.

I'm so sorry for your pain. It is real, but it will eventually get better. Like FLAF said...we have all been there. We know the pain, and we're with you in spirit! Stay strong!

This is what I am feeling at times too. Things have been so horrible for a week. I don't know how people live with the constant arguing. After just a week, I was ready to just end it. I have promised not to make a decision for 6-8 months. Then end of next month will be 6 months, and after he hung up on me yesterday, I told him (when I called him back) that I didn't think we needed to wait until next month! Things are better today, but our relationship is so fragile.

This is definitely hard work, and I sure hope it turns out to be worth it.

I found out my H was still trying to be in contact almost 5 months ago--a month after we started professional counseling. Just today I looked at the emails he had sent her that I had made copies of. WHY? Just to hurt myself? Because that's all it did. I ended up crying and verbalizing all kinds of negative things to myself. When I say outloud to myself that I hate my husband, it is not a good thing. I say I want this marriage to work, so I shoiuld not be doing and saying things to undermine that.

Don't read them. It only causes pain. It's not like you don't remember what they say.

Magsy, have you printed out the 180? You need a hard copy where you can read it every day (but not in a place where HE can find it). It will make a world of difference in how you feel about yourself. You deserve so much better! We all do, and the only way we are going to get it is to command it--just like respect. If you don't respect yourself, no one else will either. You can replace the word "respect" with several others..like love.

The anger lasted quite a while for me. Let's see.....how long has it been? Two years? Yeah, haven't come to the end of it yet. It's not as intense as it was--or as frequent. It does get better, but it does take time. I'm telling you, this site and these people who so generously share their knowledge, insight, wisdom, and time are truely amazing! They have helped me more than the $95/hr therapist!

Yes, this is normal. It has been four months since I got ALL the details. I still have these thoughts, but they're not as intense or as frequent.Have you done much reading on this site? Best place to start is this link:http://www.infidelity.com/forum/advice-betrayed-t2734.html

It was written/compiled by one of the guys on here who is wise beyond his years (I don't even know how old he is, but he is very wise!) called butwehavekids.

How long ago did you find out? Has your husband been completely open and honest with you? What steps are you two taking to heal? Do you have children? How long have you been together? How long between the letter and him supposedly already ending it? I got this one too, and I believed it. He had not. And he did not for for another nine months.

Now for the big question: Is he worth fighting for? This is going to be hard, but you could come out with a better marriage than you had before. But man, it is HARD! You will come to discover that you are stronger than you ever imagined! One bit of advice I am following is not to make a decision as to whether to stay or leave for 6-8 months. I have changed my mind on that question about 500 times in four months. I am doing the work to see if it is going to be possible. I am trying to behave as if this is what I want to see if it is what I want.

Read that info, and post here

I am so sorry for what you are going through! Isn't weird to think you know someone, I mean really know them, and then they do something like this. You are, by far, better off without him. Hey, at least it is clear-cut! No wondering what you should do! Stay strong, and remember, you have friends here who understand.

This is my experience too. My H tells me he was always in love with her. He would've left me to be with her if she would've left her H. She was not willing to give up the doctor's (well really he's just a dentist) salary for a carpenter's salary. I too feel like second choice. And if he tells me one one time duriing one of our "honest discussions" that he will always love her, then we might be done. I DON"T want to hear that anymore!